Crazy concepts of yesteryear

Stargazer2006 · Former Deputy Administrator

Crazy concepts of yesteryear

Leela25 · Global Moderator

Whoa, what the Focke-Wulf?!?! O_O

I've never heard of this before, thanks for posting!

Stargazer2006 · Former Deputy Administrator

We discover something new every day, don't we? smile

(Or as my grandmother used to say: "That's why the old lady refused to die, because she learnt something new every day!").

Here's another one for you (although the inspiration is clearly from Da Vinci (no, not the Code book, the real Leonardo!) which I've included for comparison.

-airfoil- · Veteran Member - Level 3

Wow, this is gonna be a fun thread. Did the airscrew actually fly? I ask because Leonardo tested his own design on little minatures but with no luck.

Stargazer2006 · Former Deputy Administrator

Forgot to include the source. Here it is:
http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/03/02/corkscrew-plane-for-vertical-flight/

Not sure if the project was carried through, but since there are no Sellmer helos in aviation history books, I think it's safe to assume that the project was er... screwed. biggrin

Meanwhile, can you believe that carrying a helo on top of a Lockheed Starfire was actually very seriously considered?

Commander31 · Veteran Member - Level 3

Stargazer2006 wrote:
can you believe that carrying a helo on top of a Lockheed Starfire was actually very seriously considered?

It's a Hiller proposal. Better picture found here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=JNwDAAAA...

Stargazer2006 · Former Deputy Administrator

Frank Tinsley never was short of spectacular artwork for Mechanix Illustrated, especially the covers! Here's everyone's personal flying saucer... "Makes any backyard an airport"... Sure. wink

Stargazer2006 · Former Deputy Administrator

Perhaps not THAT crazy (or is it?) is this "Giro-Car"...

hesham · Veteran Member - Level 3

Hi,

http://books.google.com/books?id=nykDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA124&dq=gyroplane&hl=ar&ei=HEEfTObADJX-4AbrsMj3DQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=true

Stargazer2006 · Former Deputy Administrator

Nice, hesham! wink

One of the wackies project I've ever seen on a vintage magazine cover is this giant double-deck tandem rotor helicopter from September 1930... Still figuring out how this behemoth could land!!

Jemiba · Veteran Member - Level 1

Stargazer2006 wrote:
...Still figuring out how this behemoth could land!!

Looks like a flying boat, so if the water is deep enough ...

One of my favourites amongst the "classics" is the dual tilt propeller

designed by Louis Marmonier in 1935:

-- Edited by Jemiba on Friday 27th of November 2015 05:50:55 AM

Stargazer2006 · Former Deputy Administrator

Wonder if they ever tried a small-scale flying model to validate the aerodynamics of this...

Jemiba · Veteran Member - Level 1

Stargazer2006 wrote:

Wonder if they ever tried a small-scale flying model to validate the aerodynamics of this...

Makes me think of building such a small-scale flying model along the lines of
those supermarket RC-Depron models ...

Stingray · Administrator

Imagination of the future from the past...

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6994/histoireaviation7es9.jpg

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/5836/voyaginerplanet05bn3.jpg

CrystallBlue · Member

"One of my favourites amongst the "classics" is the dual tilt propeller designed by Louis Marmonier in 1935"

Hello Jemiba, here is another picture for Louis Marmonier machine.

VinceJ · Veteran Member - Level 3

Flying saucer bus. smile

Stargazer2006 · Former Deputy Administrator

Thanks Vince. I love this one. It is the work of the great Frank Tinsley, who did many such futuristic pieces for Mechanics Illustrated and such in the 1950s. Here's a couple more:

aschiro · Veteran Member - Level 2

In 1935, Louis Marmonier of Lyon, France, was granted a patent describing a unique concept for a tilt-propeller aircraft. Two propellers were mounted between dual fuselages of a canard-wing airplane. The propellers were counter-rotating, with one tilting down and one tilting up (i.e. one pushing down and one pulling up), such that their lines of thrust always lay in the vertical plane passing through the center of gravity. There is no evidence that Marmonier ever built his aircraft.

Source: http://www.aiaa.org

Jasper · BANNED

Stanley Hiller did get a working prototype into the air. It would not get very far before it used up all its fuel. When the Korean war began he went into business building more conventional helicopters for the armed forces. I suspect he did not give up entirely on the ramjet helicopter though. Perhaps he built a radio controlled drone. I don't think you can make a cheap helicopter that carries a pilot, as you would have to worry about it failing to fly after it was up in the sky, and falling out of the sky. They might have a use for an expendable helicopter in battle, espically one with a tv camera that could transmit pictures, and it was radio controlled, so it would not matter if it ws shot down.

hillberg · Veteran Member - Level 2

fall out of the sky? Jasper wut cha smoking?

(If that was the case I'ed be dead 9 times over. . .) confuse

Autorotation works........ biggrin

PS. Stanly made nice helicopters that flew like trucks. (flew H-12c)

-- Edited by hillberg on Wednesday 18th of November 2015 12:37:27 PM

Jasper · BANNED

The Hiller Hornet could not do autorotation. The ramjets caused too much drag. This is one of the reasons it never made it past the prototype stage.

How much does the cheapest helicopter that carries a human pilot cost?

-- Edited by Jasper on Wednesday 18th of November 2015 07:07:13 PM

Jasper · BANNED

Are you sure that is a flying saucer bus?^ It appears to me to be something designed for the McDonalds corporation to be a restaurant that has an appearance that suggests a hamburger.

-- Edited by Jasper on Wednesday 18th of November 2015 07:33:53 PM

hillberg · Veteran Member - Level 2

Sorry the Hiller hornet can do and did autorotations, The fuel burn was excessive and the Army nixed the funding, Frank from Fuel Safe (1995) was the one of the test pilots for the program and we swapped war stories about helicopters his work after Hiller was varied at the time I met him he built the bladder fuel tanks for my Rotormouse.

His scrap book was a whos who of early helicopters. A small world - helicopters.

Palo Alto fire rings, Frank hated the excess fuel on start up it would burn rings in the dirt.

-- Edited by hillberg on Wednesday 18th of November 2015 08:53:44 PM

retroistic · Veteran Member - Level 2

Jasper wrote:
Are you sure that is a flying saucer bus?^ It appears to me to be something designed for the McDonalds corporation to be a restaurant that has an appearance that suggests a hamburger.

A flying fast food joint? That's a new one!

As Stephane already stated that is a piece by Frank Tinsley known for many futuristic illustration such as that one. It was just an impression based on emerging transport ideas at the time, specifically the Avro VZ-9 and the assorted Flying Jeeps and potential for the civilian market was common for these kind of innovations, despite their eventual failure. It is clearly a variation on the flying bus idea with normal passenger seats, so nothing suggests any type of major food service involved. The colors and aesthetic were also common for the times. Although kind of hard to unsee the burger resemblance now that you mentioned it!

Stingray · Administrator

Jemiba wrote:
Stargazer2006 wrote:
...Still figuring out how this behemoth could land!!

Looks like a flying boat, so if the water is deep enough ...
One of my favourites amongst the "classics" is the dual tilt propeller
designed by Louis Marmonier in 1935:

Images are broken. Jens, if you happen to drop in again one day, could you please update your post with attachments? Thanks.

Jasper · BANNED

This crazy concept was to be something like the Model T Ford of rotorcraft. The price was estimated to be $ 5000 and every family would have one.

Jasper · BANNED

"can you believe that carrying a helo on top of a Lockheed Starfire was actually very seriously considered?"

To me it looks like the helicopter is carrying the Lockheed.
This could be used by a small country that could not afford to buy aircraft carriers for its navy.
If they had a larger and more powerful helicopter which had landing gear that would surround the fighter and reach the ground, they could use this to get airplanes off a regular ship.

Pepper · Veteran Member - Level 3

retroistic wrote:
Jasper wrote:
Are you sure that is a flying saucer bus?^ It appears to me to be something designed for the McDonalds corporation to be a restaurant that has an appearance that suggests a hamburger.
A flying fast food joint? That's a new one!

This needs to exist.

Leela25 · Global Moderator

Jasper wrote:
"can you believe that carrying a helo on top of a Lockheed Starfire was actually very seriously considered?"

To me it looks like the helicopter is carrying the Lockheed.

You're right as one look at the link will tell you just that. tHanks for correcting...

Pepper wrote:
retroistic wrote:
Jasper wrote:
Are you sure that is a flying saucer bus?^ It appears to me to be something designed for the McDonalds corporation to be a restaurant that has an appearance that suggests a hamburger.
A flying fast food joint? That's a new one!
This needs to exist.

OMG yes. Impractical as buck but I would be willing to throw my money at it for shiz and giggles.

Jasper · BANNED

Frank Tinsley had a good idea with the firecopter.

This concept uses helicopters that have extra power from ramjets mounted on the tips of the rotor blades. This was considered unsafe after tests were done, and ramjets were not installed on any manned rotorcraft.

Maybe if they had a few of these at the world trade center on 9 / 11, they could have put out the fire before the towers collapsed.

-- Edited by Jasper on Sunday 22nd of November 2015 07:42:48 PM