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Post Info TOPIC: Human Interface Rotor System Helicopter (HIR) yes....way out in left Field


Veteran Member - Level 3

Posts: 317
Date: Oct 3, 2011
RE: Human Interface Rotor System Helicopter (HIR) yes....way out in left Field
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Rotor hub and prop assembled/ balanced.

Dave

 

 



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Veteran Member - Level 3

Posts: 317
Date: Oct 3, 2011
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OK.........I assembled everything , clicked on the power to discharge the battery for re-charging.....and the mixer went out. When I upgrade the motors, I failed to upgrade the battery and mixer. My thinking was that "what's a few volts less?" Foolish on my part because the motors pulled too much electricity through mixer....smelled wires burning. Fortunately, the motors are ok, but I need a new mixer and upgraded battery. Sorry everyone.

 

Dave

 



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Date: Oct 3, 2011
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No.....it's not the end. Just Murphy giving me a hard time.

 

Dave



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Date: Oct 5, 2011
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Parts are ordered. In the mail.

Dave

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Date: Oct 5, 2011
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Oh well, that happens when you experiment with something, chances are if it's wrong, you'll learn the hard way, but the point being you learned something from it for future reference. It's just the way the rotor spins. wink

I still see great progress, so keep at it! Looking good so far. Looking forward to further updates.



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Veteran Member - Level 3

Posts: 317
Date: Oct 23, 2011
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Waiting on you tube to upload. Should have vids soon today.

Dave

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Veteran Member - Level 3

Posts: 317
Date: Oct 23, 2011
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I made significant changes to the airframe to lower the center of gravity. Both electric motors are still good. Still trying to track down a suitable mixer/speed controller. When I first started this prototype, I did not take into account the servo spacing. My patent drawing are for a manned platform. The servo pushes the upper airframe about 1 inch higher than it should be, displacing the weight and CG in a vertical manner. There is also a good chance that this is also what caused the torsion flex in the airframe and failure during the first tethered flight.
Regards,

Dave

 

 



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Veteran Member - Level 3

Posts: 317
Date: Oct 23, 2011
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Fried mixer/controller Murphy is tripping me up.

Dave

 

 



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Veteran Member - Level 3

Posts: 317
Date: Nov 11, 2011
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Still no parts yet..... UPS. I'll have the new spur gear hub mounted and hopefully have the parts by Monday.

Dave

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Veteran Member - Level 3

Posts: 317
Date: Nov 20, 2011
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Hub assembly etc. No fried wires or sparks. I had to change out the servo; went with a 3 bladed tail rotor; kept the same extreme production direct drive TR motor. Almost done with the lower mast bearing mount. I had to make another one because the mast was not long enough. The mast that came with the RC helo was the same size as the alloy steel stock that I was using, but it was hollow tubing, so it cuts weight and I did not need new bearing.

It's a Bell rotor system with the weight fly bar, but the patent for the HIR system  is for the airframe that is an integrated part of the rotor system, eliminating the swash plate. An articulated hub would be best to utliize for the morphing airframe. I'm concerned about mast bumping and excessive blade flapping with a semit-rigid "teetering" hub.

 

 

 



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Veteran Member - Level 3

Posts: 317
Date: Nov 20, 2011
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Some typr of chip on a ring shaped chip board on the bottom of the motor cooked, but it still works. Bat not fully charged.



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Veteran Member - Level 2

Posts: 121
Date: Nov 22, 2011
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Forgive me for not reading all posts and watching all videos related to this, but how exactly is this a 'Human Interface Rotor System'? I see from one video that the actual airframe moves to tilt the rotors instead of a traditional rotorhead, so I'm guessing that maybe the pilot would tilt the rotors by simply leaning - making the whole ****pit/upper section of the airframe tilt? Kind of like the Segway of helicopters?

Or am I completely off-track? Hey, if I am, that might be a new concept for you to try! smile



-- Edited by Flyboy on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 05:40:14 PM

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Veteran Member - Level 3

Posts: 317
Date: Nov 22, 2011
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Flyboy,

Yes, in the full scale manned platform, the concept allows the pilot to move with the rotor system. The pilot seat is attached to both airframes. Similar to what Charles Siebel did with a "shifting ****pit, but his design was a linear shift in the CG. This concept, in theory, allows the CG to "flex" for lack of a better word, but the airframe changes with mast incidence/tilt. All of CG hang test show change in mast tilt without the lower airframe just hanging and swinging forward/aft like a pedulum with no directional control in flight. Thus far it's small scale and there are alot of things to consider when scaling up. Get alot of "cold shouldered mistresses" after dealing with DARPA, Bell, Northrop, and others. Bell has been "looking over" the concept for 16 months now. No word since I last spoke with Mr. Lappos. But, that's ok. The mechanical problem solving part is what I like most. This rotor system is one of 7 or 8 system and my first crude attempt.
My thoeries:

http://envisionrotorsystems.blogspot.com/2011/09/kinematics-with-respect-to-hir-airframe.html


Until physics and mathematics prove me wrong, I'll keep trying.

Best Regards

Dave



-- Edited by davh12 on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 07:51:55 PM

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Veteran Member - Level 2

Posts: 121
Date: Nov 23, 2011
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davh12 - Thanks for the explanation. I'm glad that I wasn't completely off-track making me look like a total dummy! Tell me, to what extent would you like to see your idea used? As you've submitted proposals to DARPA, I'm guessing you have a vision of it being used in military helicopters. I would think that your concept would be better suited to commercial helicopters along the lines of 'personal transport' or for extreme 'hobby' flying.

I have an invention too, although not necessarily to do with helicopters. It's interesting to see someone else who has come up with an invention. I also tried to submit my idea to a number of military and defense companies, but with little or no replies. I see that you filed a patent, that costs money. I did look into doing the whole patent thing, but can't afford to, especially with me not knowing the full extent of what is involved with my invention.

Basically, I have the concept and theoretical usage of it, and that's about it. The technology involved with my idea is way too advanced for a non-engineer such as myself to even think about doing a mock-up or prototype - which is what most of these companies would like to see when you offer a proposal.

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Posts: 317
Date: Nov 23, 2011
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Flyboy,

Don't sell your self short. I'm not an engineer. The patent process is slow, but not that hard. Look in the "Patents" Thread. I think that I posted something there. The indutry takes advatage of our ignorance of the patent process. You do not need a patent attorney if the idea is truely original. Even still, the process  that obtains the same result as some other invention may be a patentable difference. Especially if the difference is an improvement. If you go to the patent office web site, you can down load the forms and even call them and they'll help you. Some attorney's steer you to a provisional utility patent, but put the effort in for a non-provisional utility patent. Do the drawings your self and file for it yourself.  You'll have to file for one anyway within 12 to 15 months should you make the mistake of filing for a provisional. Just do not think that you need an attorney. Then apply for a "Private PAIR".  It allows you to track your patent application process. Once you file the application and the patent office gives you a "Patent Application number", you hold a patent pending status. The $558 dollars includes the costs for filing, prelinary search to be certain that your idea has not already been done, and all the way to a patent pending status. IA patent attorney will charge you $500 dollars for just a prelinary search and then jack up the price after they find out that your idea is patentable. I learned that the hard way. I got pissed off and researched it and found out that you can do it on your own. If you do it yourself it runs about $558.00 dollars  (2009). Every 3.5 years there is a maintenance fee that starts at about 600 dollars. Make sure that you file as a "small entity".

I had not intended for a military version, but I wanted to see if it fit the utility as a UAV. I got screwed in Iraq by a fixed wing UAV operator. I'm Infantry. See the link below for that story. That's what started my little "crusade" if you will. We're not getting the right tools down at our level. But, my patent was not the answer. Prior to my first deployment to Iraq, I started the design process. It was intended for sport aviation and civil/law enforcement for departments that could not afford a 3 million dollar twin star for example.  A single place helicopter with a FLIR system is still worthy to be used by smaller police departments. http://envisionrotorsystems.blogspot.com/2011/09/uasuav-implementation-at-platoon-level.html

I wanted to eliminate the swash plate and the resulting angular differences between retreating and advancing blades  and loss of lift that requires additiona pilot input to correct. Also I wanted to reduce  maintenance costs. I get the cold shoulder a lot. I suppose the industry may be scratching their heads as to how a mechanically inclined Hill Jack came up with something like this. Residual income would be nice, but I'm in it for the problem solving....and to prove the nay sayers wrong when they say you must be an engineer. Creativity requires no schooling, but the willingness to learn, teach yourself and ask "what if? Further advancement of any innovation will require engineers later on, but I will do as much as I can. Look at the Wright Borthers...........bicycle mechanics. The Erie Canal was not built by civil engineers either. Happy Thanksgiving.

Best Regards,

David



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Posts: 317
Date: Nov 29, 2011
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I have a few adjustments to make. The mast incidence is too far aft due to the lower mast bearing and 9T pinion. Airframe manipulation cannot counter the continuous aft thrust until I tweak the servo arm and change the pinion to allow additional spacing. A 13T pinion should allow enough room to adjust the lower portion of the mast to correct it. The tail rotor does not generate enough horizontal lift/thrust to counter the increase in torque caused by the smaller diameter spur gear. Something I expected, but it's tricky trying to get more main rotor speed, keep the anti-torque system working efficiently and not over-speeding the main rotor system to a point during which smaller parts break. The push/pull ball linkage needs to be adjusted as well the servo arm is too short to effectively manipulate the upper airframe to vector the rotor disc thrust. All of these are minor tweaks. We're in/out of the field until Tuesday of next week, but I hope to have further updates soon. The sketches for a manned platform with this system will outline the utilization of an articulated rotor hub using torsion bars for lead, lag and flapping action rather than hinges, as well a thrust bearing assembly to mantain collective pitch. A semi-rigid hub may only result in excessive blade flapping/mast bumping, but I can only speculate. I'm not an expert or engineer. We'll see what happens.

Regards
Dave



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Veteran Member - Level 3

Posts: 317
Date: Dec 9, 2011
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This update is almost 2 weeks old due to being in the field

 



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Posts: 317
Date: Dec 9, 2011
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New pinions are in as of yesterday. Update this Sunday..hopful for flight



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Posts: 317
Date: Dec 11, 2011
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Installed new pinion and added a 3rd mast bearing. Hopeful for short hops over Xmas leave.

Dave

 



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Veteran Member - Level 3

Posts: 317
Date: Jan 11, 2012
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TR motor went out on the single mast boom and pod. Last week-end I started a coaxial version of my patent while I wait on parts, still morphing airframes. Got most of it done. Concerned about the teetering point between the two airframes and adjusting it would add additional weight.

Finished the battery carriage last night and positioning of the forward/aft pitch horn ball link. Pics/vid clip this week-end.

Dave



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Posts: 317
Date: Jan 13, 2012
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Coaxial platform is almost done. Glue needs to dry over night. This platform is still a mechanial morphing airframe for rotor disc control. The yaw control surface uses one bearing and is hinged to allow the assembly to tilt with the upper airframe. Battery carriage is attached to the lowest portion of the upper airframe that runs down through the lower airframe and hinged. The upper portion is attached to the lower airframe forward to distribute weight between the two airframes. I'm still tweaking the single mast boom and pod. Vid clip posted shortly.  Pics are the before and after. I had to cut away the swash plate because the helo was so small. I could not disassemble it easily. Test flight tomorrow.

Dave

 



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Date: Jan 13, 2012
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Quick clip. Minor loose ends to tie up.

 

Dave

 



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Veteran Member - Level 3

Posts: 317
Date: Jan 15, 2012
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Last night did a quick short hop. Smooth hover, but not sufficient control. Much like the indoor IR control helos. The yaw control surface was not large enough. I was worried about adding weight, so made a CF frame and filled the surface area in with a strip of scotch tape. Glue is drying. Next flight tomorrow morning.

Dave

 

 



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Posts: 317
Date: Jan 16, 2012
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Crashed the coaxial platform into the dining room light and broke the fly bar. Repairs made and working through weight distribution: too much weight forward. I'll spin the upper airframe around, cut, extend and re-solder the motor wires. Yaw surface still needs to be longer.

Dave



-- Edited by davh12 on Monday 16th of January 2012 06:51:37 PM

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Posts: 317
Date: Jan 16, 2012
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Tried the coaxial without the fly bar and the upper hub locked and rigid like the lower hub. I'm not sure how Sikorsky does it w/ the X2, but I had to repair the fly bar and unlock the hub. Next flight should be tomorrow night. Got some wiring to do.



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Posts: 317
Date: Jan 19, 2012
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Bent the inner mast(wall), causes the downward clockwise descent. Use plastci sheeting now to soak up energy. Re-thought centrifugal force, part of which prevents rotor thrust when the coaxial mast tilts in the "mechanical morphing" set up with regard to rotor control. More to follow.

Dave



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Posts: 3381
Date: Jan 19, 2012
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Thanks for the updates, Dave! Sorry if comments on this project are becoming scarce. No worries, we're still watching. 

Best of luck, and keep up the great work! wink



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Veteran Member - Level 3

Posts: 317
Date: Jan 19, 2012
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Travis,

I'm not worried. I've had to go back to the books after I noticed something with regard to the effects of centrifugal force. I think there is light at the end of the tunnel. Oh, the "X's" are airframe strikes, hence the plastic sheeting to help prevent more damage, energy.... sudden stop and all.
Dave


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Posts: 317
Date: Jan 23, 2012
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Pitch and yaw control surface are both good. Added a 2nd weighted fly bar. With the masts tilted forward, the top hub fly bar stays in it's plane of rotation due to centrifugal force. With mast tilt, the blade over the forward airframe increases in pitch parallel with the span of the blades, causing the blade aft to decrease in pitch and lift. Adding the 2nd fly bar to the lower hub allows equal lift aft in this coaxial system. I'm just speculating, but this should keep the lift equal between the 2 rotor discs...."knock on wood".

Completed coaxial system with two separate airframe joined; forward and aft tilt and yaw control. It's not like the Airscooter or GEN H4 with an airframe suspended below a power plant and rotor assembly. Tilt in the masts on the upper airframe causes change at equal moments in the lower airframe, weight distributed between the two airframe to prevent a "pendulum effect".

Dave

 



-- Edited by davh12 on Tuesday 24th of January 2012 01:40:07 AM

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Veteran Member - Level 3

Posts: 317
Date: Jan 25, 2012
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Foolish am I. I did not pay attention to the lower hub. Top hub fly bar is leading edge to leading edge. The lower fly bar should have been trailing edge to trailing edge to increase pitch/lift on opposite sides of the airframe forward/aft. I had both leading edge mounted. It fly perfectly in reverse/aft. Corrections made tonight, vids posted tomorrow. I had to trim some weight off of the airframe as well.

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